Clark Quinn and I led a discussion on Reinventing Organizational Learning at LearnTrends this morning. The recording will be up before the day is over, but I thought you might enjoy the discussion that went with it. Twitter and chat are ubiquitous at conferences now. The back channel becomes part of the overall message.
Moderator (Jay Cross) to Clark Quinn: You have the baton now.
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tmast: yeah. it looks like the sky in Indy too if you add big gray rain clouds, take away the sunlight, and change the blue to gray
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Mars Chen: ok
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Moderator (Clark Quinn) to Harold Jarche, Jay Cross, Tony Karrer, TONY ODriscoll, eLearnspace, George Siemens, Clark Quinn: that work?
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Moderator (Clark Quinn) to Harold Jarche, Jay Cross, Tony Karrer, TONY ODriscoll, eLearnspace, George Siemens, Clark Quinn: yay!
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Moderator (Clark Quinn) to Harold Jarche, Jay Cross, Tony Karrer, TONY ODriscoll, eLearnspace, George Siemens, Clark Quinn: thanks harold
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Jenna Papakalos: tmast: oh no! Sorry you are having yucky weather.
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Mary Myers: you could sing?
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Mitch Oliver: Just hum
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Moderator (Clark Quinn): no, no, not MUZAK! Ahh...
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Moderator (Clark Quinn): and you do NOT want me to sing
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Moderator (Clark Quinn) to Harold Jarche, Jay Cross, Tony Karrer, TONY ODriscoll, eLearnspace, George Siemens, Clark Quinn: do we want to start on time? it's 9AM
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tmast: Better rain then snow! Although it's coming soon. ; - )
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Moderator (Harold Jarche): http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/14067
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Moderator (Clark Quinn): hello all!
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Jenna Papakalos: Tmast: I don't do snow.
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Thomas Stone: Once attended a conf. session that had the theme from "Peanuts" (aka, Charlie Brown) while folks gathered for the session. Kinda nice actually.
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Mary Myers: you can never go wrong with the Peanuts theme
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Moderator (Clark Quinn) to Harold Jarche, Jay Cross, Tony Karrer, TONY ODriscoll, eLearnspace, George Siemens, Clark Quinn: can I leave mic on?
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Mary Myers: you made a mistake?
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Moderator (Clark Quinn) to Harold Jarche, Jay Cross, Tony Karrer, TONY ODriscoll, eLearnspace, George Siemens, Clark Quinn: lost audio
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Moderator (Clark Quinn) to Harold Jarche, Jay Cross, Tony Karrer, TONY ODriscoll, eLearnspace, George Siemens, Clark Quinn: learnlets.com
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Moderator (Clark Quinn): learnlets.com
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Jenna Papakalos: That's awesome! Love the title.
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Moderator (Harold Jarche): Clark is at http://blog.learnlets.com/
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@AgileBill4d: did someone say Agile?
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Jenna Papakalos: Nope @Agile, said fragile
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Moderator (Harold Jarche): http://internettimealliance.com/
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Christy Tucker: You weren't working independently; you were working in parallel. You all had parallel conversations on your blogs etc.
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Moderator (Harold Jarche): parrallel but not coordinated, Christy
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Christy Tucker: true
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Moderator (Harold Jarche): traditional training & education has driven much of our self-direction and creativity out of us - need to relearn
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Jenna Papakalos: Nice! Love it Jay.
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Moderator (Clark Quinn): we're the people who've retained our love of learning despite our education
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Moderator (Harold Jarche): http://www.internettime.com/
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tabitha: i agree harold
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jadekaz: life long learning
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Moderator (Clark Quinn): slow learning, not event learning
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John McDermott: Antigua is a beautiful place.
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Moderator (Clark Quinn): or http://www.internettimealliance.com/
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Maryanne Burgos: stars
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kelly_smith01: gateway recession
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Moderator (Clark Quinn): world as biosphere, org as performance ecosystem
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Moderator (Clark Quinn): hierarchy: one person thinking for many
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mariancasey: social network
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kelly_smith01: change was yesterday
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Jenna Papakalos: change will continue tomorrow
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Moderator (Clark Quinn): but things are moving too fast, networks where everyone is thinking towards the same goal) is where agility (yes, I said agile ) can flourish
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Lucia: good
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kelly_smith01: OK
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Diane D'Amico: perfect
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Maryanne Burgos: Pace is fine
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Amy Graff: nice speed
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83yalow: perfect
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mariancasey: what do you do with outliers?
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Moderator (Clark Quinn): @marian embrace outliers: diversity breeds better outcomes (if you manage the process right)
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Moderator (Clark Quinn): btw, comments here welcome, questions encouraged
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kelly_smith01: Reminds me a bit of Rummler
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kelly_smith01: more and more partnerships in the future
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tmast: @Tony, could you please jot down the 90-9-1 rule? Missed it in the conference segment
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Amy Graff: I teach students going into business (online). How can we conceptualize this in our classes?
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Chris 2: Agile networks require collaborative learning across companies
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Moderator (Tony Karrer): http://elearningtech.blogspot.com/2008/04/90-9-1-rule-aka-1-rule-in-collaborative.html
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Moderator (Clark Quinn): @amy conceptualize the broader perspective re: learners, learning components?
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Amy Graff: @quinn - for the students I have, probably both aspects
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Moderator (Clark Quinn): @chris, yes, if it's about the network, the network goes beyond org boundaries
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Moderator (Clark Quinn): @amy: contributions to org will come from continual conversations, can't just bucket into formal, nor just within org
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Holly MacDonald: We need to talk about outcomes and business results within our orgs/with clients, not focus on "how" - that is stuff that we talk about with each other
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Moderator (Harold Jarche): though informal can work for new hires too: http://www.jarche.com/2009/03/informal-learning-works-for-new-hires/
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kelly_smith01: I recall Alison Rossett mentioning this in diff context years ago
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Jenna Papakalos: Leverage what is happening in the market. Thank you Apple with the iPhone!
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Moderator (Clark Quinn): @kelly, yes Allison's rightly has been on Perf support for a long time
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Jenna Papakalos: Why is that?
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Cynan: yeah. that's a major problem here.
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Jenna Papakalos: Communities of practice belong to training
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Jenna Papakalos: It is training!
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John McDermott: This is harkening back to Tony's comments re aggregation on his blog
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Moderator (Harold Jarche): no significant difference
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Moderator (Clark Quinn): the question is, leave KM to the propellor heads, or getting learning folks into the model
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Tammy P.: Plug for ASTD - CPLP Certification includes all of these areas of expertise
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Cynan: joint ownership? I think COPs belong to functional leads (eg CFO) but the social artistry of managing them, L&D should be able to advise on
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Moderator (Clark Quinn): CoP is NOT training, but 'training' (learning) folks have a role in making it work
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Moderator (Harold Jarche): @Tammy does certification = expertise?
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Jenna Papakalos: Get to caught up on terms and labels. KM, TM, etc. Lines are blurred, info is info
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Robin Haines: The criticality of learning across the extended enterprise has been an issue for many years. What is distracting CLO's from taking ownership of it?
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Chris 2: Pay it forward with knowledge
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Moderator (Clark Quinn): @Tammy, I haven't seen that HPT-types have put social into their models, is it in CPLP?
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Tammy P.: It is discussed, but there are old ways of thinking
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Merilee: Command and control vs. collaborative?
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Wendy: I think trainers are in the excellent position to make CoP work because we naturally touch more corners of an organization
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Moderator (Harold Jarche): not much social in HPT - reason I moved away from it
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jadekaz: Addie tells us past. What do we do? Where do we start? With future
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Moderator (Harold Jarche): ADDIE cannot help develop emergent practices - they're in th efuture, not the past; no best practices to model
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DGlow: Asked the question yesterday- traditional design has ADDIE and other models. Is there an emerging model for social learning? A structure for folks to have some common language- can help with adoption.
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Asif: well said
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Janet: agreed about collaboration (and CoP's) require communities of Trust - not just fear of mistakes, fear of someone else getting an edge from you, while not sharing their knowledge
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kelly_smith01: wisdom of crowds
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Moderator (Harold Jarche): My first work on a new model: http://www.jarche.com/2009/03/informal-learning-works-for-new-hires/
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Jenna Papakalos: DGlow: Don't know of any emerging models for social learning. Think ADDIE still applies, barebone methodology at least
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DGlow: Thank you Harold. And Jenna- Yes, ADDIE does apply in some context, certainly.
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Jenna Papakalos: DGlow: Or we can just come up with a new model, co auther a book, and be speakers for next year's Learn Trends
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jadekaz: Trust is easier in small spaces. Is that key? Starting small, ie., not company wide blogs
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Asif: trust is best in non-competitive spaces/cultures
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Moderator (Harold Jarche): make ADDIE participatory and add in Agile and you might have basis for new model
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Sandy E: In this context, I think ADDIE simply provides a way to organize and structure the things that we're exploring.
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Holly MacDonald: ADDIE works but many people don't do the A or the E
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dannymacc: Those are the most important parts of ADDIE
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Gillian: Or they think the A gets done after the contract is signed...
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kelly_smith01: They like to Avoid A and E each require justification or and proof
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Sara Jean Ward: amen!
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DGlow: Holly- Amen. Sad, but unfortunately true.
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jadekaz: Exactly re: using new tools. Gotta play to win
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Moderator (Harold Jarche): ADDIE is also very content-centric and content is no longer th eissue - it's context & connections
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Sandy E: @Harold - I LIKE the idea of ADDIES becoming participatory (and avoiding the extended time that ADDIE seems to take)
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Snezana Nanevska: I have to analyze technologies used for learning purposes in organization? Do you have tips how to start the research? What are the technologies that shouldn’t be missed?
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Jeanne Farrington: Let's see... should we ignore the audience (part of the A in ADDIE)?
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Jeanne Farrington: Should we ignore the context? (also part of the A in ADDIE)
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Holly MacDonald: I think A also tells us about all the things on the slide
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Jeanne Farrington: How about design? Should we ignore that?
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kelly_smith01: Ignore E and ignore our faults/strengths
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kelly_smith01: ADDIE is a fixation - good idea
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Moderator (Harold Jarche): ADDIE is for mass instruction and it's as outdated as mass production
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Mike Rodgers: Does anyone currently use social networking as a form of training. We have the 20th century training but I think we need to move forward. Does anyone have examples of what they are doing?
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Sara Jean Ward: systematic approaches obsolete? hmmm
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kelly_smith01: accurate idea
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Jenna Papakalos: Absolutely Jay! ADDIE reminds me of project management, software development, product management...common pieces that have ubiqitious purpose
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Jeanne Farrington: You can do ADDIE on a napkin... is infinitely flexible
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Sara Jean Ward: @jeanne LOL
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Moderator (Clark Quinn): It's a different view on ADDIE: there IS formal in the overall performance ecosystem, but ADDIE only covers some.
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Holly MacDonald: ADDIE is a process, how it is applied can morph
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Jenna Papakalos: Yes @Holly. Well put
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Moderator (Clark Quinn): there'll be a role for design, context is critical
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Moderator (Harold Jarche): Waterfall software development was killed by Agile, and so ADDIE will have to go
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DGlow: Why ADDIE was adopted- the fixation was easy because it was apporachable. If an approachable alternative is created for social learning
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Jeanne Farrington: Yes, @Holly
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Sandy E: @Jeanne - the problem is when ADDIE gets in the hands of a lot of IDs, it becomes monolithic
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kelly_smith01: ADDIE is a measure some use for evaluating job applicants - not a real tool
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jadekaz: Very high level. What is the ID to do?
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Tammy P.: Harold, You said it all.
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Moderator (Harold Jarche): @Tammy (ex-military & was immersed in ADDIE for many years)
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Jeanne Farrington: @Sandy E... then the problem is in the IDs. Doesn't make sense to blame ADDIE.
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kelly_smith01: military also used Merrill - in my experience
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Sandy E: @jeanne - true, but it doesn become an issue when the IDs are inflexible.
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mariancasey: Tie to organizational strategic objectives
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Moderator (Harold Jarche): first we shape our structures & then our structures shape us - need new structures IMO
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DGlow: Perfect Harold- my point. Folks need a structure to start and have successes without painful experimentation
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leslie lannan: RE: ADDIE - to paraphrase an artist friend of mine: "it's good to know the rules before you break them"
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kelly_smith01: Rummler processes instead of ADDIE = Rummler looks at the impact/role of performance to whole organization
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Moderator (Harold Jarche): no more info dissemination but move to "Connecting & Communicating"
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Jeanne Farrington: Cool, @leslie lannan
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Jon Folkestad: business owners usually know the business better than the LO
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Moderator (Clark Quinn): ROI *can* Lead you awry, focus on need to impact business success by facilitating performance
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Chellie: We're slowly changing from learning specialists to business change analysts in my corp.
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jadekaz: So, ID needs to expand to all of Gilbert's BEM
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Christy Confetti Higgins: Could IDs be community advocates? What I hear right now is a lot about information services - becoming information experts in the organization and connecting employees to people and content to enable their work.
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mariancasey: Doesn't it require a team to accomplish this? IT, HR, Communications, legal
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kelly_smith01: Yes @jadekaz RE:Gilbert
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Asif: Kirkpatrick talks about 'ROE -- return on expectations'
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DGlow: Clark- correct.
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Sandy E: @ Christy - agreed - need to change behavior so people are accepting of that help, too!
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Holly MacDonald: focus on performance and outcomes
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mariancasey: How do break down silos unless you have a flat organization?
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Moderator (Harold Jarche): all internal departments are "artificial" boundaries - need to rethink roles in a networked environment
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Jon Folkestad: hasn't alignment been a problem for a long time?
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kfarentino: teachers are changing from instructors to facilitators - creating individualized paths based on student needs, including using a variety of tools from social networks to online lectures, to quick podcasts, to f2f conversations depending on the goal/outcome of the learning experience- business needs to do the same
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Christy Confetti Higgins: We've tried to get at the table to be Information Consultants - maybe in the learning space there needs to be Learning Consultans or Learning Partners that sit at the table of major units or efforts in an organization to help faciliate and see the need for learning
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Frank Budimir: Move to Norway, Marian. We're all about flat organisations
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Bob MacKie: It's not a question of design tools. It is scope of practice. Learning encompasses areas outside the organizatio such as customers and suppliers.
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Sandy E: @kfarentino - University of Denver actaully creates "customized" masters programs based upon thpreferred outcomesof the student!
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Moderator (Harold Jarche): Intuit has outsourced ALL of its learning design & development to its customers
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mariancasey: Frank - Norway -too dark and too cold - thanks for invite though!
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Christy Confetti Higgins: I see parallels to the the struggles of the information/knowledge services space here. A key is partnering and demonstrating your value to the business - then great things can happen - it does take time.
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Moderator (Clark Quinn): And Netflix is telling folks: here is where we're going, we're empowering you to make it so within these cultural imperatives, make it happen
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Gillian: As jobs become less 'for life', surely the indiviudal is assisting in breaking down the 'do unto' mode of course provision and actually fostering self-reliance and curiosity in learning - if only for personal economic survival
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mariancasey: How about building the collaboration or learning into the employees performance review - could that work?
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Maryanne Burgos: @Jenna Can you add me to the GW? maryanne.burgos@googlewave.com TY
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Sandy E: @Christy - I the "time" factor is the time required to build trust and prove that you have something to contribute
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Frank Budimir: @Marian Can't win them all. But you're right and you're welcome
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Bob MacKie: There is also learning using community of practice outside the organization e.g. purchasing agents, chefs etc.
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John McDermott: Wave is public: just join in
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Judy Muller: Intuit..great idea to implement active practice of it's core "customer focus".
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Christy Confetti Higgins: Sandy E - exactly! It's taken us a long time at Sun to develop the trust and relationships in the info space.
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Jenna Papakalos: Jay...we need to connect when you make your way to Orlando! I like you.
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Jenna Papakalos: You tell it like it is. I respect that.
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Jenna Papakalos: @maryanne: doing it now
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Christy Confetti Higgins: I love that! Gosh, the power of the learning professional and the information professional is so obvious to me now in listening to everyone here.
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Holly MacDonald: internal consulting
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Jon Folkestad: why don't we imbed all learning facilitators in the business? is there a need to have a centralized function?
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leslie lannan: @littleasklab trying to extend the nomenclature - from "learner" to "content user" - Who needs to know what, and classifiy content according to function and depth - external partners, customers, internals etc
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Mary Myers: interesting idea Jon..
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Christy Tucker: Jon, maybe "learning facilitator" is part of everyone's job
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Christy Tucker: not a separate role
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Sandy E: @Jon - would be nice to be embedded, with a CoP of learning professional to bounce around ideas
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Renee L Robbins: EXACTLY JAY!!
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jadekaz: One ID against the world is tough place to be re: changing from training to networking solutions
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Mary Myers: yes! @Jon and @sandy E
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Katina: great concept!
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Jenna Papakalos: What would you suggest in place of performance reviews?
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tmast: Agreed JAy!
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stevenasstrom: NexGen learners are demanding immediate realtime feedback, annually is eons to them
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Moderator (Harold Jarche): we're already embedded in a CoP of learning professionals to bounce around ideas
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John McDermott: When I started in learning it was not a separate place in most organizatoins I worked with. Now it is an HR function in many places.
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mariancasey: But how do you enforce it then Jay
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Jenna Papakalos: Yes, but aren't job expectations just a part of it? Follow up gets done how?
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mariancasey: They are trying this at Aon
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Moderator (Jay Cross) to Jenna Papakalos: XOXOXO I'm available
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Christy Confetti Higgins: @Jon - I think aligning learning or information experts to the business is key - it can still be a centralized function for efficiency and other reasons but then you have folks assigned to various efforts / groups / business units - then you are part of them and sitting at the table
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Bob MacKie: A sales representatives job is to teach, set prices, solve customer problems and develop trust relationships with customers. Should sales people be trained as trainers?
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Sandy E: @Jenna - used to have a manager ask me "what have you done for your company today?" Seems to be an appropriate question in this space - what have you done to facilitate learning today? Ends up being a cultural shift, I think.
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kfarentino: learning function needs to be directed by the learner. organizations need to support and foster that and to value it.
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leslie lannan: @littleasklab Linden Labs new HR platform for 3D and whuffie points has some big implications for performance reviews
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lauraoverton: Do you think that the squeeze on resources might open up new collaborations eg with those involved in internal comms or marketing ?
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mariancasey: I think the focus is on the development of collaboration skills and promoting the collaboration by individual employees
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DGlow: Struggling with this heavily at my org currently. Not only performance review, but "peer review"- value of your participating in the network as a contributor- is there something to be done here? Seems heavy-handed.
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Moderator (Clark Quinn): jay's a stirrer
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Christy Confetti Higgins: The Employee Communications group at Sun has this model. They are one central team but the bu funds the communicator for their group and that communicator is part of that bu's efforts - it's been really effective if you can make it happen.
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Jenna Papakalos: Ha! I'll buy you a drink when you get here. Would love to pick your brain!
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Moderator (Clark Quinn): yes, and I've talked (and will be for MassISPI) about 'blow up the training department'
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Moderator (Harold Jarche): Article by Jay & I : http://is.gd/4Y82k
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Sandy E to Harold Jarche, Jay Cross, Tony Karrer, TONY ODriscoll, eLearnspace, George Siemens, Clark Quinn: Is it possible to print out or save the chat file after the session? Really valuable things here!
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Moderator (Clark Quinn): (question, with a bomb, or like a balloon?
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kelly_smith01: @Bob MacKie sales persons could "train" everyone on customer needs (percieved) or the nature of cutomer business - they should know the outside environment
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Moderator (Clark Quinn): @leslie, yes, one of the bennies of a digital environment is tracking behavior and having a record for dialog around performance (tho' requires a 'safe' culture for this)
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Jenna Papakalos: @Sandy That is an outstanding point. You mind if I borrow that?
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Sandy E: @Jenna P - Absolutely, feel free!
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Jon Folkestad: @Christy I think you can matrix all of this and I also believe we should oursource this skill to all of our employees and build this competency. This removes the LO as the bottleneck.
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Moderator (Clark Quinn): @DGlow, 360 makes sense, IF used for employees benefit, e.g. make them more successful)
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HKoenen: if training can not demonstrate measurable results it should not be done
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Jenna Papakalos: @Sandy Sweet! So generous.
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DGlow: The challenge with using some folks (i.e. Sales) for training- is that sometimes a resource that is $100/hr in value could be spending time on a much lower-level resource. In tough times, managers want them on line-of-sight value activities with immediate return.
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Moderator (Clark Quinn): @SandyE: what have you done to facilitate organizational success!
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Jon Folkestad: Why do learning professionals always think that they are they only ones who understand how to analyze a problem and provide a perforamnce solution. This is the meta learning we should be building.
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Chris 2: Sounds like definition of grace
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Christy Confetti Higgins: Good question to ask Sandy - I love that too!
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DGlow: Well said Jon.
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Tammy P.: @DGlow I don't like that way of thinking. Isn't raising everyone to a better level going to add more value to the organization
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Sandy E: @Clark - created a series of webinars (no charge) for professional development. Given that Sun is in flux right now - it's the best thing we can do for our employees.
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Charles Jennings: @hkeonen Agreed, but the measurables need to be business and org. results, not some type of 'learning results' - because most measurement of learning is flawed unless it's focused on business impact.
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DGlow: @Tammy- agree, but that's the pushback faced. Esp. in times like now. ST/Quarterly returns tradeoff for LT.
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kelly_smith01: The Future Arrived Yesterday: The Rise of the Protean Corporation and What It Means for You - Michael Malone
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kfarentino: "the sum of the parts" argument
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mariancasey: Optimize your talent and prepare them for external factors that change rapidly
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DGlow: Completely agree with Quinn's Point.
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Christy Confetti Higgins: I don't know a lot about the process in the learning space but a few years ago, our CLO, commended the library team for offering so many webinars on key information topics and questioned the learning team "why can a team of 5 people pull together these webinars so quickly and it takes us so long" - essentially we need to move faster to address learning needs
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Sandy E: @Christy - this is me applausing!
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Janet: short term is not all bad, as long as you are doing your st work with a view to the lt. if you get some quick wins, you have the credibility to pitch lt soln's
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kfarentino: @christy we also need to value the contributions of the "field" workers in creating these types of learning objects
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leslie lannan: @littleasklab saw some SoMe metrics that said that use of SoMe decreases individual productivity, but the productivity of the group improves - which is where the work happens
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Moderator (Clark Quinn): @Charles, yes, not learning skills, but collaboration skills? If the net result is more ideas per person per time, or more solutions likewise...
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kelly_smith01: Limos
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Jenna Papakalos: @Christy: Think we tend to overcomplicate things. I like to keep it simple. My mind can't handle complex stuff!
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Jeanne Farrington: Sadly, I have to go & get some actual work done. Has been fun listening & connecting.
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Moderator (Clark Quinn): @Christy @jenna, yes, formal courses can't meet all our needs, need to move to 'least assistance principle'
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mariancasey: love Senge!
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Christy Confetti Higgins: @Jenna ok, interesting to know - thanks!
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Christy Confetti Higgins: @kfarentino yes, totally agree to involve the field - it's all about connecting, building that relationship and trust with the organization and individuals
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Moderator (Clark Quinn): ie what's the smallest thing we can do to get them effective
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Moderator (Clark Quinn): how does this team get everyone working together optimally
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John McDermott: @Clark: I think this implies a just-in-time component
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Moderator (Clark Quinn): @john, yes, I reckon
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mariancasey: So what type of measurement is effective in measuring this type of learning?
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DGlow: Clark- AMEN! Also, where you don't have to use a top-level resource (basic activities), don't take them off the floor. But, when folks need that resource, they have the foundation to have a good discussion.
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Judy Muller: Find ways to leverage existing healthy collaborations to benefit whole org learning!
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Tony Karrer WP to Harold Jarche, Jay Cross, eLearnspace, George Siemens, Clark Quinn: Kim are the next slides loaded?
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Moderator (Harold Jarche): value network analysis
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DGlow: @Judy- great idea- start where it is happening well, and wrap it with more "captured" knowledge for all. Brilliant!
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Sandy E: @Clark - smallest thing? Make the light bulb go off - give them something that makes them say WOW. People will pass that on and energize the others with whom they work - collaboration and sharing start. I know it's not that easy, but I've seen it happen before, and it's pretty cool.
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Moderator (Harold Jarche): social network analysis
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Moderator (Jay Cross): Value network analysis: ABSOLUTELY
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mariancasey: Describe value network analysis I've done social network
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Jenna Papakalos: A person wiser than me once said, "start with the end in mind. Everything else falls into place."
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Charles Jennings: socal network VALUE analysis....
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